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	<title>Comments for The Thinking Meat Project</title>
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	<link>http://thinkingmeat.com</link>
	<description>Exploring what it means to be thinking matter</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:05:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Infinite diversity in infinite combinations by Mary</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?page_id=2856&#038;cpage=1#comment-13122</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?page_id=2856#comment-13122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you! I&#039;m so glad you found and enjoyed the essay. You too, live long and prosper.

Best,
Mary

P.S. I really appreciate knowing that the ideas in that essay resonated for someone else. Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you! I&#8217;m so glad you found and enjoyed the essay. You too, live long and prosper.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Mary</p>
<p>P.S. I really appreciate knowing that the ideas in that essay resonated for someone else. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Infinite diversity in infinite combinations by Zidders Roofurry</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?page_id=2856&#038;cpage=1#comment-13121</link>
		<dc:creator>Zidders Roofurry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?page_id=2856#comment-13121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just wanted to thank you for this wonderful essay. I agree with every bit of it. I&#039;m not ashamed to admit that the last part had me in tears. You&#039;re not a crackpot. You&#039;re not impractical. I know the truth of what you write. I&#039;ve seen it with my own two eyes and felt it in my heart. If you&#039;re a dreamer, then I am, too. 

Thank you, friend. 
Live long, and prosper.
-Zid]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to thank you for this wonderful essay. I agree with every bit of it. I&#8217;m not ashamed to admit that the last part had me in tears. You&#8217;re not a crackpot. You&#8217;re not impractical. I know the truth of what you write. I&#8217;ve seen it with my own two eyes and felt it in my heart. If you&#8217;re a dreamer, then I am, too. </p>
<p>Thank you, friend.<br />
Live long, and prosper.<br />
-Zid</p>
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		<title>Comment on  by Greg A</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4568&#038;cpage=1#comment-12687</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 22:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4568#comment-12687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But that is precisely where science fails.  You posit that global warming is caused by carbon in the atmosphere.  You seem to imply that it is also caused by the failure of people or governments to regulate their own behavior.

It&#039;s pretty easy to see that the real cause is the industrial revolution, but that brings up a bunch of interestingly useless questions: Could we have had the industrial revolution without fossil fuels?  Could we have had the enlightenment without leading to an industrial revolution?  Could we have had the enlightenment without the rennaissance, or the rennaissance without the dark ages?  Could we have had a rennaissance without the dark ages if we hadn&#039;t had Catholicism?

The answer to all of these questions is, of course, no.  History can only happen the way it has already happened.  If you insist on contemplating them regardless, then the question becomes one of theology.

A complicated whole led us to pump carbon from the ground into the atmosphere.  A complicated whole will eventually lead us to stop it.  Isolated analyses are next to useless.  Any government which attempts to solve the problem by well-intentioned rational fiat will have to be willing to take grossly violent actions, or it will simply not be effective.

Analogy time: your car doesn&#039;t run, because there isn&#039;t enough pressure in one of the pistons.  No, it&#039;s because your car&#039;s computer isn&#039;t flexible enough to be able to adjust to one non-pressured piston (which is certainly physically possible).  But maybe instead of re-inventing the control software to run in the degraded mode, we could more productively observe that the car is broken because an exhaust valve got mangled.  Well, that might help us fix it in the immediate, but in the long-term I don&#039;t think it got at the real cause of the problem.  Actually the cause of the problem is that you red-line the engine before shifting up, and this over-revving has mangled the valve.  So stop red-lining the engine!  But even that is not even remotely complete -- you also haven&#039;t changed the oil in 50,000 miles.

Here&#039;s a well-understood physical system with an extraordinarily well-defined goal, and yet still there is a ton of philosophical ambiguity about &quot;cause&quot;, to such an extent that it can be practically difficult to figure out a reasonable resolution: stop driving so fast, change your oil sometimes, and listen to your car when it makes funny noises.  Or maybe you should just switch to leasing, so when your car breaks you can just trade it in for another one.

Our knowledge of climate change is at that point where we are saying, &quot;I&#039;ve got it!  The pressure is low because the valve is stuck open,&quot; but anything we can do that approaches a meaningful understanding of a humane solution to the problem introduces so many unknowns that the way we manage our unknowns (&quot;faith&quot;) completely drowns out any scientificly-acquired knowledge.  We haven&#039;t even got but the vaguest notion of what a &quot;properly-functioning&quot; post-industrial society would look like.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But that is precisely where science fails.  You posit that global warming is caused by carbon in the atmosphere.  You seem to imply that it is also caused by the failure of people or governments to regulate their own behavior.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty easy to see that the real cause is the industrial revolution, but that brings up a bunch of interestingly useless questions: Could we have had the industrial revolution without fossil fuels?  Could we have had the enlightenment without leading to an industrial revolution?  Could we have had the enlightenment without the rennaissance, or the rennaissance without the dark ages?  Could we have had a rennaissance without the dark ages if we hadn&#8217;t had Catholicism?</p>
<p>The answer to all of these questions is, of course, no.  History can only happen the way it has already happened.  If you insist on contemplating them regardless, then the question becomes one of theology.</p>
<p>A complicated whole led us to pump carbon from the ground into the atmosphere.  A complicated whole will eventually lead us to stop it.  Isolated analyses are next to useless.  Any government which attempts to solve the problem by well-intentioned rational fiat will have to be willing to take grossly violent actions, or it will simply not be effective.</p>
<p>Analogy time: your car doesn&#8217;t run, because there isn&#8217;t enough pressure in one of the pistons.  No, it&#8217;s because your car&#8217;s computer isn&#8217;t flexible enough to be able to adjust to one non-pressured piston (which is certainly physically possible).  But maybe instead of re-inventing the control software to run in the degraded mode, we could more productively observe that the car is broken because an exhaust valve got mangled.  Well, that might help us fix it in the immediate, but in the long-term I don&#8217;t think it got at the real cause of the problem.  Actually the cause of the problem is that you red-line the engine before shifting up, and this over-revving has mangled the valve.  So stop red-lining the engine!  But even that is not even remotely complete &#8212; you also haven&#8217;t changed the oil in 50,000 miles.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a well-understood physical system with an extraordinarily well-defined goal, and yet still there is a ton of philosophical ambiguity about &#8220;cause&#8221;, to such an extent that it can be practically difficult to figure out a reasonable resolution: stop driving so fast, change your oil sometimes, and listen to your car when it makes funny noises.  Or maybe you should just switch to leasing, so when your car breaks you can just trade it in for another one.</p>
<p>Our knowledge of climate change is at that point where we are saying, &#8220;I&#8217;ve got it!  The pressure is low because the valve is stuck open,&#8221; but anything we can do that approaches a meaningful understanding of a humane solution to the problem introduces so many unknowns that the way we manage our unknowns (&#8220;faith&#8221;) completely drowns out any scientificly-acquired knowledge.  We haven&#8217;t even got but the vaguest notion of what a &#8220;properly-functioning&#8221; post-industrial society would look like.</p>
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		<title>Comment on  by Sarah A</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4563&#038;cpage=1#comment-12686</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4563#comment-12686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh Greg, you just don&#039;t want me to buy the baby any toys. :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Greg, you just don&#8217;t want me to buy the baby any toys. :D</p>
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		<title>Comment on  by Mary</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4568&#038;cpage=1#comment-12681</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 15:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4568#comment-12681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think actually what I&#039;m hoping society will learn is that action from everyone is required to address the problem of climate change, and that some problems are big enough to require that kind of concerted effort (including strong government involvement at pretty much all levels). What I really like is the point that it&#039;s a physical problem (too much carbon in the atmosphere, in this case) rather than that someone put a hex on you or is consorting with the devil. Burning the neighbor at the stake is not going to help anything.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think actually what I&#8217;m hoping society will learn is that action from everyone is required to address the problem of climate change, and that some problems are big enough to require that kind of concerted effort (including strong government involvement at pretty much all levels). What I really like is the point that it&#8217;s a physical problem (too much carbon in the atmosphere, in this case) rather than that someone put a hex on you or is consorting with the devil. Burning the neighbor at the stake is not going to help anything.</p>
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		<title>Comment on  by Greg A</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4568&#038;cpage=1#comment-12666</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4568#comment-12666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t that great...society was improved by accepting the scientific fact that your neighbor&#039;s poor behavior did not cause the tornado that leveled your house.  Now we are struggling to teach society that your neighbor&#039;s poor behavior actually did contribute to the tornado that leveled your house, but it was nothing personal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t that great&#8230;society was improved by accepting the scientific fact that your neighbor&#8217;s poor behavior did not cause the tornado that leveled your house.  Now we are struggling to teach society that your neighbor&#8217;s poor behavior actually did contribute to the tornado that leveled your house, but it was nothing personal.</p>
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		<title>Comment on  by Greg A</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4563&#038;cpage=1#comment-12665</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 16:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4563#comment-12665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This WSJ article is truly an infuriating example of science reporting.

Here is a myth they debunk by proving it, &quot;Environments rich in stimuli improve the brains of preschool children.&quot;  They say that removing stimuli causes mental deficits.  They say that adding more stimuli to a stimuli-rich environment does not improve things.  WHICH JUST PROVES THE POINT.  Children benefit from an environment rich in stimulus.  That is not a myth!  The myth is that playing Bach or hiring tutors or buying toys produces a richer set of stimuli.

And then the next, &quot;Individuals learn better when they receive information in their preferred learning style, whether auditory, visual or kinesthetic.&quot;  They go on to explain that our understanding of the word &quot;preference&quot; is naive.  Way to go, but you have to really stretch to find a definition for &quot;preferred learning style&quot; that doesn&#039;t turn this &quot;myth&quot; into a tautology.

They&#039;re just trying to say &quot;you, reader, are stupid,&quot; and only sharing useful information as an afterthought.  My least favorite trend in science reporting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This WSJ article is truly an infuriating example of science reporting.</p>
<p>Here is a myth they debunk by proving it, &#8220;Environments rich in stimuli improve the brains of preschool children.&#8221;  They say that removing stimuli causes mental deficits.  They say that adding more stimuli to a stimuli-rich environment does not improve things.  WHICH JUST PROVES THE POINT.  Children benefit from an environment rich in stimulus.  That is not a myth!  The myth is that playing Bach or hiring tutors or buying toys produces a richer set of stimuli.</p>
<p>And then the next, &#8220;Individuals learn better when they receive information in their preferred learning style, whether auditory, visual or kinesthetic.&#8221;  They go on to explain that our understanding of the word &#8220;preference&#8221; is naive.  Way to go, but you have to really stretch to find a definition for &#8220;preferred learning style&#8221; that doesn&#8217;t turn this &#8220;myth&#8221; into a tautology.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re just trying to say &#8220;you, reader, are stupid,&#8221; and only sharing useful information as an afterthought.  My least favorite trend in science reporting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on My brain, hallucinating by Mary</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4531&#038;cpage=1#comment-12618</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4531#comment-12618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i couldn&#039;t think of a good example of my own, but I really like that one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i couldn&#8217;t think of a good example of my own, but I really like that one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on My brain, hallucinating by Mary</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4531&#038;cpage=1#comment-12617</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4531#comment-12617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very interesting, thanks! I wonder sometimes if the thing the sleeping mind fears most is not that things will make no sense but that its story line will be broken. (Or maybe the waking mind too, for that matter, but I don&#039;t like to think about that for too long.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting, thanks! I wonder sometimes if the thing the sleeping mind fears most is not that things will make no sense but that its story line will be broken. (Or maybe the waking mind too, for that matter, but I don&#8217;t like to think about that for too long.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on My brain, hallucinating by Tom Zeller</title>
		<link>http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4531&#038;cpage=1#comment-12612</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Zeller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkingmeat.com/?p=4531#comment-12612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not as dramatic, but an example of incorporation.  As a teenager I dreamt i was being chased around the house by a bear.  It was actually terrifying especially when at the end the bear jumped onto my chest.  I awoke to find the small family dog on my chest. While the dream felt like it took place over as much as five minutes, my guess is the sound of the approaching dog triggered the entire dream which probably lasted only a few seconds.  - Tom Zeller]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not as dramatic, but an example of incorporation.  As a teenager I dreamt i was being chased around the house by a bear.  It was actually terrifying especially when at the end the bear jumped onto my chest.  I awoke to find the small family dog on my chest. While the dream felt like it took place over as much as five minutes, my guess is the sound of the approaching dog triggered the entire dream which probably lasted only a few seconds.  &#8211; Tom Zeller</p>
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